“We were controlling the Army. I was their field marshal”

Uttarakhand Chief Minister Vijay Bahuguna speaks to Open

Q The last month must have been the toughest of your life.

A We were facing the fury of nature. And it was unrelenting. Every day a calamity was taking place in some or other district of the state. It was difficult to administer the state in this hour of crisis. The worst is over and we are on the path of recovery.

Q How long did your government take to understand the magnitude of the calamity?

A You have to be practical and not biased. Fair criticism is always welcome. But unwarranted criticism will not be in the right spirit. You see, Kedarnath is the safest place with respect to pilgrimage. What happened is that there was a lake in Kedarnath, which burst on account of excessive rains. Flash floods washed away the entire small town of Kedarnath and the entire valley up to Gaurikund. Connectivity was snapped. Now you could not reach there even by foot. The only way to reach there was by chopper. [But] if the weather is bad, you cannot fly choppers. You cannot call it an administrative lapse.

Q My question is something else. How long did your government take to appreciate the magnitude of the crisis—a day, two days, a week?

A I am coming to that. Let’s first deal with the fundamentals. There were two helipads at Kedarnath which were washed away. Makeshift helipads had to be used. How do you make them if you can’t reach there? So the Army, the Air Force, the Indo-Tibetan Border Police and the National Disaster Management Agency—all the agencies were switched into action and they have done a commendable job, rescued thousands of people. We could not save lives on the 15th and 16th [of June] because we could not reach there; 57 of our own government officials and functionaries have died. So you must understand, a calamity of this nature needs time to respond. How much time would you give the government to respond?

Q But were you aware of what had happened from day one? Because your secretariat was still trying to come to terms with what had happened three or four days after the calamity.

A Immediately. On 16th and 17th [June], the government was aware of the crisis. We contacted the Army. [Since] there is no airbase here, choppers had to be requisitioned. Private choppers in the state were pressed into service. Thousands of people were rescued.

Two civilian and one Army chopper crashed. Even today, we cannot go on foot from Gaurikund to Kedarnath.

If you can’t do it after 30 days when the Army, the ITBP and the NDMA are working there—how could you expect the state administration to reach there?

Q Can you say this to the thousands of people trapped there, wet and cold? Hundreds of tonnes of food were rotting at Jolly Grant airport for days. If you can’t rescue people, at least air-drop food for them.

A Wherever people were trapped was safe. There was no threat to their lives. There was food and medicine. There was shelter. Now the entire focus was to save people from the areas where there was no food, no shelter—that was the main area of Kedarnath. People from other areas—I understand their hue and cry, but they must appreciate the crisis.

Q And these other people were basically locals…

A At least 7,000 sq km was washed out. I don’t have such manpower.

Q How big is your state machinery?

A My total budget is Rs 35,000 crore [more than this was spent to host the Common Wealth Games in Delhi in 2010]. I don’t have a regular police in the hills. There is only revenue police, and that [has been] the case for the last 100 years because there is no law and order problem in these areas. The revenue police—patwaris and lekapals—are not competent to carry out a rescue operation. They themselves ran away to save their lives.

Q But the extent of damage and loss of life could have been contained if the unregulated construction along the river and around Kedarnath had not been allowed. There is also no mechanism to monitor, let alone regulate, the flow of pilgrims and tourists.

A There was no threat perception in the region. Now we realise that whatever we do in the state has to be done in a scientific and planned manner. All these buildings and small townships, hotels and the rest have been there for many years, not [just] during the last one year when I have been Chief Minister. Now we have to go for a very planned development. I have set up a statutory authority for reconstruction and rehabilitation. It will [include] experts in their fields and will put up infrastructure that will last at least another hundred years.

Q That might help. The shrine is the only building that survived in Kedarnath, perhaps because it was the only authorised structure there.

A The temple is safe. There is a huge [amount of] debris around. The debris cannot be removed because we cannot take machines there. That area is isolated. Even the Air Force can’t reach there. What will my government do?

Q Why was no account kept of the cars plying in the area and of the inflow of pilgrims and tourists? That would have formed the basis of any reliable estimate of the lives lost as a result of this calamity.

A Each and every pony and dandiwala was registered with the Zila Panchayat. And when I am paying compensation, I will go by the records of the Zila Parishad. The flow of tourists and pilgrims was not regulated. And I think it is not regulated in any place in India. Tell me a place where it is regulated?

Q At Vaishno Devi and along the Amarnath Yatra, to mention a few.

A It’s correct. Now we will have to do it. I am not averse to the idea. We will have to control everything—flow of tourists, their stay and safety, the nature of buildings, advance weather warnings. Everything, basically.

Q It took your government a calamity of this magnitude to realise these basic issues of governance.

A Uttarakhand is a state that required serious attention. And the Government of India and the Prime Minister have taken a lead in that by constituting a subcommittee of the Cabinet, of which I am also a member. This has been done to ensure a better Uttarakahnd.

Q Are you saying that Uttarakhand was, so far, an ignored state?

A No, not ignored. We are a prosperous state with [economic] growth of 10 per cent. We are a tourism-rich state. We are not a beggar state. We are an economically viable state. But now the tourism industry has been hit. Now we have to find a source of sustainable growth, [balanced] between the environment and development.

Q The implication of the fact that the inflow of tourists was not monitored is that we don’t know how many people were in the Kedarnath valley when the calamity struck and thus we have no reliable estimate of loss of life. The number of people who died is now a matter of popular speculation.

A 110,000 people have been rescued. We have not got the due credit, which we deserve. 110,000 people rescued without any law-and-order problem.

Q What law-and-order problem were you expecting from people who are dying, stranded for days, dealing with hunger and cold, hanging between life and death?

A Why not? Law-and-order problem in the sense that people are stuck, local villagers are stranded. The rescue work is all about tourists. What about local residents? [The locals] could have played politics out there. They did not mind that the rescue work was directed towards the tourists and pilgrims. This can only happen in Uttarakhand. The credit goes to the administration.

Q The credit goes to the locals.

A No. We made them understand. We are in touch with them.

Q Your government says about 5,700 people died. NDMA puts the figure at 11,000.

A Forget about the records. [The families of] people who came here know how many came. The number of ‘missing complaints’ is 5,648. The missing includes deaths. [If the missing are not found before 15 July 2013, they will be declared dead.]

Q This figure includes locals?

A Yes.

Q The NDMA’s figure is 11,000 dead.

A That was without basis. We have totally rejected it. If there are 11,000, give us their names. I am not quarrelling, but give me the names.

Q It was a national disaster, but the response from the other state governments was regional. They were only bothered about relief for the people of their respective states—like Narendra Modi for Gujaratis.

A I did not allow that to happen. There was an effort. There were proposals made by various governments [offering] choppers for the evacuation of their people, to which the Army and the administration politely said ‘no’. Everybody was trapped, [be it] an Indian or foreigner, and everyone was evacuated. [Other] state governments helped me. Whatever help they have given I have taken. [But] the rescue operation was done solely by the [Uttarakhand] state government.

Q The Army deserves the credit for this mega rescue operation.

A We were controlling the Army. The Army was not controlling us. As per India’s Constitution and the rules of the land, we tell the Army what to do.

Q So the Army did excellent rescue work under your supervision. Is this what you are trying to say?

A The Army and Air Force both. I was their field marshal for one month. I have the satisfaction of coordinating their effort.

Q Where is your uniform, then?

A It is about [one’s] outlook and mental approach. (Laughs)

Q But, as per the field marshal’s own senior officers, there was no unity of effort in the rescue operation; it went haywire many times.

A These officers were not in the picture of the programme, policy and action. The roles were specific and cut out for the Army and ITBP. I was coordinating with three top Army officials: two lieutenant generals and one major general. We were having daily monitoring meetings. I was personally monitoring the day-to-day activities of the forces. We told them: ‘You have to evacuate [people] from here and drop food there.’

Q VIP movement hampered the rescue work. Since you were coordinating everything, why didn’t you stop it?

A We did not allow VIPs to use helipads where rescue operations were going on. In the Kedarnath valley, there were four helipads, which were being used for evacuation. We did not allow any VIP to land there. The Prime Minister did not land. The BJP president did not land. The [Union] Home Minister did not land. [Narendra] Modi was not allowed to land. I was the only person, as Chief Minister, who was landing at various places.

Q What about Rahul Gandhi?

A He came when the rescue operations were over. He landed when the helipad was not being used for rescue operations.

Q Or the rescue operation was stopped because he was to land there. Why was he accorded this special privilege that was not even given to the Prime Minister?

A When he landed, no rescue work was being carried out from that particular helipad. And he landed at just one helipad. So the heavens would not fall [if he landed]. If I allowed media people to use helipads, and [similarly] if I allow a Member of Parliament, a vice-president of the party, to land at a helipad, then I think it’s a perverse criticism.

Q The point is that this movement of VIPs hampered rescue work. That happened when you were the ‘field marshal’.

A The Army chopper was not used by a civilian. The Army choppers, because they are huge, only evacuated. The choppers which were hired by the administration, the civilian choppers… those were being used by local MPs, MLAs and ministers, because they had to be there.

Q When the Union Home Minister was here on an aerial survey, an Army helicopter, MI-17, accompanied the Home Minister to make sure the air space was clear.

A Who told you that?

Q It is there in the Army records. My source is a senior Army officer.

A He should be court-martialled. There was only one chopper. I was with him; the vice-chairman of the NDMA was also there. Just one chopper flew with the Home Minister. We had an aerial survey of Kedarnath and affected areas.

Q Last month, in Open, I reported that preferential treatment was given by your government to those who could curry favour.

A Try to understand that this is human behaviour. Suppose your brother was trapped and you knew me. [Would you] not phone me up? They were asking for preferential treatment. But we did not give them preferential treatment.

Q Was no preferential treatment given?

A Yes. Only for those who were sick.

Q Facts suggest something else. A Bihar minister was rescued on the second day; he wasn’t sick. Then, one of the first to be airlifted was the District Magistrate of Rudraprayag.

A He was not one of the first to be rescued. He was rescued on the second day. He had a heart problem. His replacement was sent, [but] he got trapped, and reached only eight hours later. The replacement sent to Rudraprayag is a very senior IAS officer. My best officers are now in the field.

Q One month on, you seem to be satisfied with the way you dealt with it.

A There will always be that feeling that more could have been done. I am a very honest person, answerable to my conscience. I am not answerable to the opposition. There will always be a feeling that ‘so many people lost their lives’. But it was a very honest and committed exercise on my part and on the part of my government to reach out to the people and bring them relief.

Kedarnath tragedyUttarakhandVijay Bahuguna